Full Council - Wednesday 5 July 2023, 6:30pm - Start video at 0:50:59 - Tunbridge Wells Borough Council Webcasting

Full Council
Wednesday, 5th July 2023 at 6:30pm 

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let's pray
Almighty God we pray for the elected representatives gathered here this evening of the people of the Borough of Tunbridge Wells to make decisions that will affect the lives of our residents, businesses and visitors, we ask for your guidance and wisdom to sermons and courage as they deliberate on these important matters help them to make decisions that are just fair and in the best interests of the community.
we also pray for your blessing on the people who work for the Council. give them the strength and courage to carry out their duties with integrity and compassion.
we give thanks, especially at this time for the National Health Service, those who work in it, those who are served by it made continue to be a source of healing and care
to all,
and we pray, above all, for the older residents of Tunbridge Wells asking for God's blessing on them
and their families, we thank you for the gift of this community and we ask that you continue to bless us as all the councils work together to make it a better place for all
in Jesus' name man, I mean
Ms
officers, would you ask anyone who's left to return please?

1 Apologies for absence

Good evening, members of the council, members of the public and others who have chosen to join us, both here at the Town Hall and online, via the live webcast,
welcome to this meeting of Tunbridge Wells Borough Council on Wednesday, the 5th of July 2023.
before we get underway, I'll ask the director of change and communities to set out some important safety and procedural information that I would ask you to give your full attention to
dreadful changed communities.
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
in the event of the fire alarm bring in continuously, you must immediately evacuate the building walking pace officers will escort you via the most direct available route, no one is to use the left
we will make away to the fire assembly point but the entrance to the Town Hall Yard car park at Munson Way once outside a check will be made to ensure everyone has safely left and no one is to re-enter the building until advise that it's safe to do so.
now for the meeting tonight. This is a public meeting, and proceedings have been webcast live. Online recording will also be available for playback on the council's website shortly afterwards. Any third party may also record or film council meetings unless exempt or confidential information is being considered.
The council is not liable
for any third party recordings. Please use the microphones when speaking and turn them off. When you finish, the red light indicates that the microphone is on any comments that are not recorded for the webcast may not be included in the minutes of the meeting. At the end of each debate, the Mayor will ask whether the matter is agreed in the absence of a clear majority, or if the Mayor decides a full vote is desirable. A vote will be taken by a show of hands. Members request a recorded vote must do so before the vote is taken. If you have a mobile phone, please ensure it switched off or set to silent mode. Thank you
agenda item one is to receive any apologies
for absence
Director agenda communities.
thank you, apologies had been received from Councillors, Adkins, Bridger, Alan Chaplin, Doll Ince, Fitzsimons, Moon and Sankey.

2 Minutes of the annual meeting dated 24 May 2023

thank you agenda item 2 is to agree the minutes of the annual meeting held on the 24th of May 2023, which start on page 5 of our agenda,
this is for accuracy, checking only, and I remind Members that the only record they only record what was said and provide a brief summary of the debates Councillor Popa, you have the second,
I second the motion,
anybody does any Member wish to speak, or are there any other amendments to these minutes?
I take, there is no, the motion is to agree the minutes, are we agreed?

3 Minutes of the Extraordinary meeting dated 24 May 2023

agenda Item 3. to agree the minutes of the extraordinary meeting held on the 24th May 2023, which start on page 7 of our agenda, Councillor Pope, are you happy to second?
I second the motion.
does anybody there's any Member wish to speak, or are there any other amendments these minutes?
it seems not the motion is to agree the minutes, are we agreed?

4 Declarations of Interest

agenda item 4 declarations of interest.
the next item is to receive any declarations of interest in accordance with the Members' Code of conduct as any member a declaration of interest to make in respect of any item on the agenda today.
it seems not
thank you, we move on to the next item
agenda, item 5 is announcements,
I have two announcements, firstly, I am pleased to advise that Jane Scholes has accepted the award of Honorary Alderman. the small ceremony was scheduled a little later in the year to present the award.
secondly, I would also like to advise that we'll be issuing Councillor Bland with his past Mayor's badge, the date to be agreed in September.
Deputy Leader, is there anything you would like to any announcement she would like to make.
thank you, Mr. Mayor, I believe Councillor Rutland has an announcement,
yes, Councillor Rutland,

5 Announcements

thank you Chair, I'd like to update members on the UK's shared prosperity fund from community groups Round 1, the Council awarded grants to the following projects, Whitehorn allotment improvements in Britishly and Matfield the clearance of the site and creation of boundary hedges to provide new allotment patches, Cranbrook in Bloom, installation of plant is on Cranbrook High Street to showcase plants from Cranbrook in Bloom husband in sports clubs. Security and maintenance, the purchase of maintenance, equipment and installation of CCTV to protect the facilities from vandalism and theft, Labour House Village improvements, the urgent maintenance of public toilets and the erection of signage across the village fold, housed wood improvements in Pettitte Wood, the regeneration of a threatened area of woodland, also in Paddock Wood wildflower, meadow improvements, the rewilding of a wildflower meadow used by the local community in Pembury or moral maintenance, the cleaning and maintenance of the war memorial and his Speldhurst in Bidborough, a community biodiversity project to create a habitat as part of a community volunteering project in the village the second round of grant applications has just closed. We're pleased that we've had 15 project proposals from seven different locations across the borough. I should emphasise these are shared prosperity fund projects not to be confused with other community grants, and in terms of our year, 1 projects works to improve Sherwood Lake and surrounding woodland has been completed. Kent High Weald Partnership has installed new boardwalks signage undertaken, works to improve biodiversity and held community volunteering and engagement activities. The Cranbrook community kitchen project has also been a success. Local volunteers have used funding to provide meals and shelter to vulnerable members of the community, whilst also upgrading local facilities to ensure the project can continue post. UK SBE funding
the West Kent business support programme is progressing well. Smarter society set up a website, West Kent business dot com delivered events and has fully booked places for its mentoring sessions. Micro grants will be awarded to participants in September
work to establish the new West Kent rural grants programme is progressing, will put more when the newsletter Defra has approved the 444 k council programme for the rural England prosperity fund. this will enable support to complete the decarbonisation of the Weald Sports Centre this year, in addition, the council will be making 333,000 pounds from our ref allocation towards supporting local rural businesses and communities in 2024 25 thank you.
thank you, Councillor Robinson and Richard change communities to have announcements.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I have nothing further to add

6 Presentation of Freedom of the Borough Award

agenda Item 6, It is great pleasure and a rare privilege to confer the honour of the freedom of the borough to the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust.
before I invite Mr. Hudson to collect the award,
do we have any other Councillors who would like to speak, Councillor warn, I think you will want to say a few words.
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
as we bestow the honour of the freedom of the borough to the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS, Trust, I would like to say a few words
a little over three years ago, our lives were transformed in a way few of us could ever have imagined with the arrival of the COVID-19 pandemic.
not since the outbreak of the second world war have our daily lives been so dramatically interrupted. as most, if not all of us are under the age of 85, we have no direct memories of this time, nor the resilience that such experiences build.
too many of us, it came with feelings of tremendous fear and anxiety with little roadmap as to how to deal with such a shock, let alone give guidance and solace to our children.
but there were no such indulgences for those working on the front line in dealing with a pandemic. whilst we largely protected and stayed safely in our homes, staff at every level in the NHS put their own lives at risk on a daily basis to try and save the lives of so many others.
on behalf of the Council, I would like to express our immense gratitude and thanks to all the NHS staff and volunteers, as well as to the families of those who lost their loved ones to the pandemic and made such huge sacrifices during this time,
but as we celebrate the 75th anniversary of the NHS it seems a fitting time to reflect not just on their incredible response to the pandemic but also on our own personal relationships with the service,
a service for which most of us have or has always been there in our lives.
but one which we of very often take for granted, and yet is there for us at both our most memorable and most challenging times
up until 18 months ago, I thankfully had the only occasional need for the services of the NHS.
the visit to the GP had removal of an appendix a broken thumb, the successful delivery of three healthy children and witnessing the sensitive and attentive care my mother received due during her final weeks, but in December 2021 that all changed when my husband was discovered to have a tumour the size of a hen's egg growing in his brain.
the speed at which he received treatment was breathtaking being rushed without delay for a life-saving operation at King's College Hospital
since then until now, throughout my husband's ongoing treatments, I have become all too familiar with the incredible work that all the NHS staff do day in and day out
this work is undertaken with grace and diligence despite unimaginable workload pressures, the rising threat of both for verbal and physical abuse and the frustrations of not always being able to offer patients the treatments and care that they know is needed to deliver the best outcomes due to insufficient resources.
amongst all this, the staff were amazing from the consultants doctors, nurses to the receptionists, pharmacy and hospital transport staff, to name but a few of the many incredible people my husband and I meet on our frequent hospital visits.
with professionalism and care, the incredible strength and resilience shown by them.
or is inspirational,
it is this resilience that gives us our cue to find, within ourselves our deep capacity to love and be loved, and to fully appreciate our lives
at this 75th anniversary milestone, I would like in many Members to share their NHS stories by way of showing our appreciation as we bestowed the honour of Freedom of the Borough upon the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust thank you Mr. Mayor.
thank you, Councillor warn, does any other Member of the Council wish to speak?
Councillor Holden,
I am a great supporter of the National Health Service
and have very good personal reasons for for that, because 28 years ago I was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukaemia.
and also the a need for a bone marrow transplant
as Councillor Warren says the treatment was immediate,
it was a bit worrying actually, I have to say I realise that things are going. a bit scary when the NHS gets to be so efficient and fast, I think that they're very, very good when they really need to be
and and so I spent four and a half months in hospital.
thought I was going to wake up dead on several occasions.
and and then I had a bone marrow transplant from my now sadly late younger system.
throughout the attention and the care and the expertise of the staff
were reassuring. and
helped me through the hardest time of my life, so I'm very very fond of the National Health Service and have great reason.
to praise it, not least because,
as things chant,
I've didn't have radiation from my bone marrow transplant, but another round of chemotherapy, which is why I don't have any hair
and and
that allowed a recovery of my fertility and very, very rare one.
and so there are four children now in their 20 s who so they surveyed the NHS created, as I said, on the 25th anniversary of it, we added it up as exactly a hundred years extra of life that had come from the care of the NHS, both mine and the for children which would not have existed without it, so I am a great fan of the National Health Service thank you.
thank you, Councillor Holden, Councillor Liddington.
thank you, Mr. I'm a recent customer at the NHS Pembury,
thankfully not nearly as serious as the last two.
contributions, and I have to say I didn't fall off my bike
after say as well dangerous cricket incident.
across the country and there are, on average, 570 million patient interactions with NHS services every year, which is equivalent to 1.6 million a day.
so that's the equivalent of everyone in this Chamber
being assessed, treated and cared for by the NHS 10 times a year.
so every person has an on average 10 interactions with the NHS every year,
the principle of healthcare free at the point of views was and still is quite unique,
and anyone who's spent any time living abroad will know.
the reassurance and peace of mind that are that a health service free at the point of use is at to us. and it does indeed remain a national treasure.
we all know it faces huge challenges, ageing population, healthcare becoming more complex and expensive
care, home spaces are challenged, so elderly patients often end up on bed-blocking simply because they can't be discharged,
we also have an increasingly unhealthy population which is leading to life expectancy stagnating. and more complex issues for the NHS to deal with
this, maddening bureaucracy, which I'm sure some the colleagues. working for the NHS and in the room today recognise.
but at its heart, the NHS is kept going by people who are willing to put themselves in harm's way, for your sake and for mine.
funding for the NHS in particular staffing has not kept pace with demand or inflation and we're seeing the impact of that playing out at the moment.
I don't see us granting a freedom of the borough as a substitute for proper compensation and for work done by NHS staff.
however, it is a small token of our gratitude as representatives of the people of temperature wells, so thank you.
thank you, Councillor Liddington, with anybody else, Councillor LB.
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I am an ex NHS employee and it might terrify some of you to know that I actually started my career as an operating department assistant at Great Ormond Street in the theatre's there.
and I'm also a proud, Unison member,
and I'm enormously proud of the work that is undertaken by those who are employed in our health service and have been throughout my career, of course,
the recognition as Councillor Liddington has just said, confirmed this evening. is deserved, but it does nothing to acknowledge the current needs of the service and its employees
and its service users, either, which I think are in a parlous state,
just by way of example, and very recently my wife was admitted to Pembury in mid-April for emergency surgery and was wonderfully looked after for the five days that she was there.
then I was admitted on the 7th of May as an emergency to my first experience of riding an ambulance which was not so exciting at the time.
I have nothing but praise for the staff who dealt with me at Pembury too, and then only two weeks ago
my daughter, visiting from New York look the wrong way as she crossed the road and got hit by a car and was also taken to Pembury. Thankfully she is well and back in the United States so we have immediate first-hand experience of just how wonderful the care and have fantastic all of the staff everywhere from reception right through to once departure have been. So yes, I'd like to express a huge thanks to the NHS. I support the sentiment of this Freedom but I would like to see the funding and the employment and the retention issues addressed by the government more urgently than is currently the case.
thank you, Councillor LB.
Councillor Lewis.
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
it's not too dramatic to say that if it wasn't for the NHS, I wouldn't be here, there's been two events in my life that the NHS has saved me and I thank them for that
and
and I thank the system that we do have at the moment, however underfunded it is.
you'll never hear of anybody at the moment,
being declared bankrupt because of their health,
which happens in the United States quite regularly, I understand
all the care I've ever had at the
Pembury Hospital has been fantastic and I adore them, and thank them for that.
and I'd love to and thank the whole of the NHS for what they what they do
for all of our population and and they deserve every accolade they get, I think thank you.
thank you, Councillor Lewis, Councillor Rogers.
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
and thankfully I haven't had much contact with the NHS as a patient. However, I have been an NHS Dr for the last 15 years and whilst I appreciate the sentiment of giving the freedom of the borough to the NHS in the current climate, I feel that it's not much different than the clap. I'm sure we are all aware of the pressures facing the NHS, some of which Councillor Lidstone touched on, but including poor staffing, recruitment and chronic underfunding due to the lack of investment and care from the government of the last 13 years, despite all the staff that I know continuing to work their hardest and provide the best care possible for our patients, morale is at an all-time low and the services provided are restricted, as they have ever been.
I will always wholeheartedly support the NHS and I will support this motion. However, I feel that it is a slightly empty gesture which does nothing to improve the conditions for staff or the service we can provide for patients.
thank you, Councillor Rogers, would anybody else like to
contribute?
well, then, can I invite David Highton to make his waste for the table in the centre,
and I will ask the directors of changing community to read the oath of freedom by which the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust will be admitted as a recipient of the Honorary Freedom of the Borough of Tunbridge Wells in recognition and appreciation of their service the detail, particularly where of are recorded on the scroll which will be presented to the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust
so Mr. Heightens at the table.
I get the difficult bit you're actually
OK, so where do you, David Heighton, solemnly swear to be true to our sovereign King, Charles III? to the as unlawful successes of our sovereign, you shall aid in a system, mayor and council of this borough, in all things, lawfully reasonably commanded of you, as a free and franchise person of this borough,
will you preserve the peace and tranquillity of the said borough, keep it harmless within your power, will you disclose to the Chair for the time being details of any unlawful meetings or assemblies which come to your attention? Will you do all in your power to contribute to the good of the BOA, keeping to its laws and customs?
Our world
thank you, I will now ask the Mayor and David Heighton to sign the Roll of honour.
the representative VHS are heading over for reception, to celebrate the centre fifth anniversary of the a NHS in the immediate Scott centre, so
we are letting them go early and we hope they will have a very enjoyable evening as well.
OK item agenda, item 7 is to receive questions from members of the public.
but we have now, we have received no questions from members of the public.
agenda item 8
to receive questions from members of the Council duly received in accordance with Council procedure Rule 10
there are three questions which are set out in the supplementary pack, the agenda.
as before of the answer, the questioner may ask a supplementary question to clarify something from the answer.
the first question is from Councillor Holden.
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
I am actually put forward for questions.
they have been grouped as one Councillor, as you know all right
yes, well I'll have on a point of order, Mr. Mayor, I think that
I we've had this discussion but I have to say in public that I have never seen that done before
and I've been told that these would be grouped together, so I only have one supplementary question entitled
the
the the relevant part of the constitution and 10.7.
it says that a 10.6 rather Crysis which notice has been given under 10.2 or 10.3 we asked in the order in which notice was received, except that the Mayor may group together similar questions.
where more than one question was received from a member, there are further questions from other Members, then the first of the questions received from the Member making multiple requests will be put before taking in members who have submitted questions.
that these are not similar questions, Mr. Mayor, so.
On a point of order, I didn't agree, and I know that this is an interpretation, you told me that the chief executive put on on to this, I think it's wrong, I think that that.

7 Questions from members of the public

part of the constitution means questions put by different people, which are similar, will be grouped together, not as a group of questions which are on the same subject, but all different questions, and so I think that that's not right or fair that that should be done, I have never seen that done in 16 years 15 years on this Council,
and so I would ask you, Mr. Mayor, that you overrule the Chief Executive and allow me to put my questions individually.
thank you, Councillor Hogan, but the final decision is actually mine, and not the chief executives, and I know we obviously differ on the definition in 10.6 I see those as as similar questions and related questions, and I therefore think the Council
work on that basis so,
I hear your point of order, but the decision of the Mayor is is final on that issue, I
accept that, Mr. Mayor, except that of course, and
I don't agree with it and my concern is that this is closing down a debate,
sorry the decision is final, could you answer your question please?
I am not quite sure how to answer it because I have forwarded I read all four out.
you can read your question, our guests, please.
the first part is too, this is all to the Leader of the Council, or whoever standing in for him.
can you tell me the name of the private contractor, which is giving equality, diversity and inclusivity, training to TWB staff, other providers, Nelson training or inclusive employers, and is the training package from Flickr e learning?
a second question is, can you provide me with text and the PowerPoint slides which are used by this company which is paid with public money to train to WBC staff?
third run, can you confirm the costs spent on this training already and the costs projected for the future?
and for these training sessions, I believe, are compulsory for staff, are they free to disagree with the trainers and put, for instance, gender critical viewpoints, can they refuse to attend for any reason?
as to the Leader of the Council,
to, I think Councillor Warren is going to respond.
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
thank you for your questions, Councillor Holden,
I believe you've also submitted a freedom of information request, and a response was sent to you last week covering many of the points you've raised.
as I hope you would be aware, everyone in Great Britain is covered by the Equality Act 2010,
this includes you and everyone you come into contact with in your role as a councillor.
the main principles of the Act are equality, diversity and inclusion
for absolute clarity, the Act says that diversity is about the ways in which people differ.
these differences should be recognised, celebrated and treated as a natural part of society,
staffing issues are a matter for the Chief Executive as Head of Paid Service, but in answer to your question, the council provides training to staff to ensure it complies in its public sector duty,
a variety of methods and providers have been used, including Nelson training, inclusive training and flick e-learning.
you have been supplied with friendly motility requested and also the chief executive has already provided you with an estimate of the cost associated with this, which is around 2,250 pounds.
non discriminatory, try, recruitment, training and promotion processes, and working practices towards an organisation which recruits and retains employees from a wide demographic.
and there is clearly a benefit in recruiting and retaining the best employees, irrespective of their gender, age, sexual orientation, ethnicity or nationality, religion or belief, disability, education, social background, etc not to do so, would almost certainly reduce the pool of talent from which an organisation can recruit and therefore hamper growth, employee morale and ultimately the services we provide to our residents.
in respect of your other points, staff are obviously free to hold whatever views they wish or to start state their pronouns, and I believe that this has already been made clear to you,
finally, I would like to remind Councillor Holden that non-compliance with the Equality Act can lead to a legal challenge and judicial review.
thank you, Mr. Milne,
per Councillor Holby a supplementary.
thank you, Mr. Mayor, just as a matter of information, the information the to you said that I've had, I did have
a day outside the freedom of information period required the 20 days and after I'd submitted these questions for that Councillor
encounters the question so
I'm just answering the point has been made, you might have the answer to your question, sorry I have had these answers only after I put these questions into the Council.
are you aware
that I have put these questions and variations of them no fewer than eight times since January to the chief executive and have had prevarication and evasion, and only last week was any information given of any value are you aware of that?
the attempt now to make limit me to one
Councillor, you've asked the question, you can't make a statement afterwards, no, I'm not the question has been asked yes, Councillor Warner, where I'm coming
to the question I think Mr. Mayor as I required to as Armley
Councillor you've asked the question already.
that's absolutely my question, that's not my question,
my question or a
yes I do, is, you know right, OK, Mr. Mayor, then the question I will go to is,
do you know that the government Equalities Office has phased out subconscious, unconscious bias, which is the training that's been given by Thomas Wells Borough Council that the government has said that it expects local government and other agencies to abandon that form of training that the outgoing chair of the Institute of Race relations Colin Prescott called unconscious bias training, nonsense, that the race relations commission has called for an end to it, and yet we
are not just Councillor, this is not a speech, it's a question, I think you've asked the question, I'm going to
Mr. Mayor Mr. Now I'm being closed down here and I think that that's completely wrong. OK, you've
you've asked
the question, the question is, are you aware that this is a completely
contentious point of view, the unconscious bias training, and it has been widely discredited and discontinued by the government, the race relations commission and and the race relations
group. I am aware of that and why are we continuing to do it and spending public money on
it? Councillor Holden counts
out. That's it, Mr. Mayor,
I think any questions in relation to
how the council staff are trained
is the responsibility, as I've said, of the chief executive of had payments paid of service,
if you would like more information on that, we're happy to find to provide a full response on your further questions in writing
in due course and I will ask the Leader of the Council to do that.
thank you, Councillor Patrick Councillor Walsh, Councillor White's, you have a question.
thank you Mr.
Question for Councillor Rutland, can you please provide clarification on whether KCC or to WBC is responsible for the oversight and running of the traffic scheme on Mount Pleasant outside the public realm, which is currently causing residents so much concern,
and as part of this can you please confirm who residents should direct their petition questioning the scheme to KCC or TW OBC?
thank you for your question
KCC is responsible for the implementation and operation of the scheme Tunbridge Wells Borough Council, operates it on their behalf, under an agency agreement KCC, are due to take back responsibility on the 1st of April 2024, and there is already petition to KCC in existence.
Councillor
thank you, and
so I am aware that KCC are telling residents that the scheme has nothing to do with them and also not willing to accept the petition.
I am aware that certain people are saying it is nothing to do with them and I am not aware of the
response to the petition.
because it was considered, I assume, when KCC first accepted the petition when it was begun in May,
I can't really comment on further on KCC matters.
thank you, Councillor White, you have a second question,
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
this is so, can you please confirm if you will consider a dispensation scheme for local residents and suppliers for local shops who are now having to take details which are very disruptive to their daily lives and simply pushing extra traffic onto the surrounding roads?
thank you. Deliveries to businesses in the restricted zone are permitted and several drop offs to the charity shops I would like to assist residents most impacted by the scheme and I'm looking to work constructively with them and with our KCC colleagues to see what is possible and what is not we can make representations, but any dispensation for residents would need to be considered by KCC who, if they agreed would need to consult and amend their traffic regulation order the legal basis on which the scheme operates.
council wide.
yeah, I want more, and that's great identify why that what the residents presented their own scheme to go round this and the JCB on Monday, so it would be wonderful if you could actually talk to them about that and listen to their proposal and consider it further.
thank you, yes indeed, I will there my Colin residents and I invited them to come to the GTB to speak, so I am aware of their ideas and will be listening to them and working with them and their ideas and other ideas have been produced by the Royal Tunbridge Wells Town Forum, thank you.
thank you, Councillor Rutland,

8 Questions from members of the Council

we move to agenda item 9, which is the Overview and Scrutiny Committee annual report 2022 23.
the covering report starts on page 13 of the agenda pack and the recommendation is that the report be noted,
we have no public speakers on this item,
I'm going to ask the current Vice Chair of Overview and Scrutiny Committee Councillor Knight to introduce this item and move the recommendation.
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
this is the Overview and Scrutiny Committee annual report for 22 23.
I'm sure our members have read the details in the pack and the recommendation is that the Overview and Scrutiny Committee any report is noted and I'd like to propose that thank you, Mr. Mayor,
thank you, Councillor Knight Councillor Holden, would you like to second the motion?
yes, I will.
you're going to reserve your right to speak or to want to speak now or reserve
my right please.
that matter is now open to debate whether he would like to speak.
it seems not Councillor Holden, would you like to
thank you, Mr. Mayor, as people are aware, I was the chairman of that committee in the last municipal year. what I thought was good was that
and I believe it was the Leader of the Council who wanted to see that happen, was that an opposition member was appointed as chairman when I was Deputy Leader and Hart District Council 20 years ago I rewrote their constitution and I wrote in what I'd hoped would be a sensible thing which, as an opposition member should chair that committee and I was told at the time which has since changed that it was not legal to do that,
it seems to me to be a very good move and I congratulate the leader of the opposition, the Leader of the Council for
making that decision.
having said that, I was very disappointed in chairing that committee and that's why I've wondered about whether I should second this, because I feel that there's very little scrutiny going on, there was very little scrutiny going on the stuff that was being put through with congratulations to cabinet members and so on and so forth was not serving democracy well
it was also
and I accept that my chairmanship was controversial, but people were shouting me down as the chairman. and and people walked out when in when I was making a speech, during a debate
and
under the
spurious argument that you were not allowed to make any political statements which were not short in coming from the other side so.
I am glad that we are continuing with this, and I believe that the Leader is keen of the council is keen that it should continue that that with an opposition leader, it makes sense, I'd like to go further, constitutionally and see.
chairman of the cabinet advisory boards, not be the cabinet member who's supposed to being advised, which I think is a constitutional nonsense which what it might consider reform, not suggesting that should be an opposition. number, But it shouldn't be a cabinet
so, Mr. Mayor, I second that, but with those reservations I hope that people will be a bit more robust in challenging their own party members
when they come before them as cabinet members than they were last year, thank you.
thank you, Councillor Holland, Councillor Knight.
thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you Councillor Houghton, and for those comments, yes, it certainly was a robust ride last year and a stormy and occasions as I think probably members of the committee will remember this year with Councillor Dorling's there's been some sort of any major changes made, I believe we've got a fairly for and detailed schedule lined up of items that we want to be holding the the authorities into account, so I think you'll see significant improvements for the coming year. Thank you, Mr. Mayor,
thank you, Councillor Knight
the motion is that the report be noted are we agreed?

9 Overview and Scrutiny Committee Annual Report 2022/23

10 Horsmonden Neighbourhood Plan

agenda Item. 10 is the Horsmonden neighborhood development plan.
The covering report starts on page 27 of our agenda pack, and the recommendation is the report be noted,
we have no public speakers on this item. I'm going to ask the Cabinet Member for Housing and Planning Councillor LB, to introduce this item move the recommendation Councillor pound.
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
as you have said, this report starts on 28 page 28 of your papers, there are three recommendations to cancel, the first of which is that this report recommends that the Horsemen Den Neighbourhood Development Plan be formally made and become part of the statutory development plan for the area with immediate effect following a favourable local referendum result. Secondly, that the Horsmonden neighborhood development plan post-referendum decision statement at Appendix A be published
and 3 that the Horsemen Den Neighbourhood Development Plan,
strategic environment
assessment adoption, statement be drafted and published after the neighborhood development plan is made.
As a bit of background, you will see at 3.00.1 2 and 3 of your papers that there was a turnout of 30.8% of the residents of the Parish of Holtzman Den and the results of the referendum were that 94.5% are in favour of the
adoption of the Local Plan
only 5 point for 8% are not
and therefore our responsibilities as a full council are to make the name of the plan, if more than half of those voting in a referendum have voted in favour of the plan which they clearly have,
we are satisfied that there has not been any breach of any EU obligation or any of the convention rights with which we have to be aware.
and finally, therefore, it is proposed that Full Council be recommended to formally make the Horsmonden Neighbourhood Development Plan with immediate effect, thank you,
thank you, Councillor pound Councillor warm, would you like to second the motion?
yes, Mr. Bad, I second the motion and reserve my right to speak,
thank you, thank you, Councillor 1, the matter is now open for debate. Would anybody like to speak
Councillor Hayward,
thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, I'd just like to point out just I'm sure it was a a mistake but Councillor LB just said that 94% had agreed to the local plan where I'm sure he meant the Neighbourhood Plan, thank you, Mr. Mayor,
I'm sure you'll correct Councillor Hayward.
Councillor Murray,
thank you, Mr. Mayor.
yes, it was a very good turnout and there are various groups here,
obviously we're against it, but it turned out there, weren't very many of those, and the reason for the post-referendum note is partly because we have an issue with the limits to built development, it would appear that over the last seven years that the this has changed without any referendum, I'm not sure where,
who or why or where it when it was actually done, and so that is why this has been put in here and before the local plan is put forward again, we would actually husband, and residents would like to see this anomaly as far as the LBD is concerned on the eastern side. it is of particular interest to them that it goes back to where it was before it was changed without any referendum or anything, so I put that to the planning department to actually try and help us resolve that, but I'm very much in favour of this.
this actual
plan, and I think it will help those within Horsmonden have a little clarity on what is going to be expected with development and and how we want to see our actual neighborhood develop, thank you, Mr. Mayor,
Councillor March reveals like to speak,
I do see no one,
so the motion is
that the who has been then labelled plan.
I beg your pardon,
sorry, Councillor warm.
just on the note of changing the
any part of the Labour development plan after it's gone to referendum, it's my understanding standing, but obviously you have to have conversations with the planning department that that isn't possible at this time.
it may be that the boundary of the line is part of the local plan,
but I, as I understand it, in your neighborhood plan, it has to remain where it is on the plan that was passed at refit, that was voted on at referendum.
however, there might be the opportunity to later date to review the plan and, within that, look again at the red line boundary, so I would encourage those involved in plan making to have those conversations with the planning department,
apart from that, I would just like to congratulate
all those involved in undertaking the plan and making the plan
and the residents of Horsmonden to say congratulations and well done,
thank you, Mr. Mayor,
we go to the wall and Councillor Perrin.
to add anything.
no other than to reaffirm the comment that I think that this report, sorry this, this local plan, so I keep on calling it the local plan, local development plans, one day we'll talk about the local plan this. This neighborhood development plan has been very well developed, very well researched, very well presented and I think that it is robust and will certainly help to provide a material consideration of planning applications for the for the parish going forward. Thank you very much,
thank you, Councillor pounds, so the motion is the report be noted, are we agreed?

11 Urgent Business

agenda item 11 is urgent business, but I confirm there is no urgent business for the Council to consider this evening.

12 Common Seal of the Council

agenda item 12, is to authorise the common seal, as set out on page 40 of the agenda.
I so move Councillor Pope, are you happy to second,
I second the motion.
Thank you. The motion is to authorise the Common Seal of the Council to be affixed to any dot contract minute notice or other documents arising out of the minute or pursuant to any delegation, authority or power conferred by the Council. Are we agreed

13 Date of next meeting

finally, agenda item 13, the date of the next meeting is Wednesday, the 4th of October 2023, thank you for your attendance, the time is now 7 24,
the meeting is closed.