Joint Transportation Board - Monday 2 October 2023, 6:00pm - Feedback Tab - Tunbridge Wells Borough Council Webcasting

Joint Transportation Board
Monday, 2nd October 2023 at 6:00pm

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Twitter

Forums

Speakers

Feedback

Votes

In order to view this webcast, please do the following:

Download Flash Player.

You can download it free at
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/ (opens in a new window)

Please note: you will probably need to restart your browser after the installation of the plugin is finished.

Speaking:

An agenda has not been published for this meeting.

Select an agenda point

Scroll with video

Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

let us know your being lived, I thank you Chairman, according to the streaming records you are now streaming live, thank you very much, and a very warm welcome to everyone to the GTP meeting, I'm Sarah

as anyone heard, that was it just me.

I'm Sarah Hamilton, County Member for tumultuous rural welcome to this evening's meeting, and before we start the meeting, there are a number of procedural issues to go through, for which I'd be very grateful for your attention and I'll not pass over to the Clerk to the realms. Thank you Chairman, good evening everybody. This meeting is being held remotely via Zoom and webcast live online. A recording will also be available for playback on the Council's website. Afterwards, all participants of the meeting should mute themselves when not speaking, to reduce background noise, which will help the meeting run smoothly. Members using Zoom will have access to the chat function. If you wish to speak, please type s in the chat, and the Chairman will invite you to speak. If you are joining by telephone, you should be able to mute and unmet yourself by typing Star 6 on your keypad, but you will not have access to the chat

the Chairman will periodically ask whether you wish to speak, whereupon you can unmoved. However, if there is any excessive noise on the line, the organisers may have to mutate, whilst the chat can be used to indicate that you wish to speak. This facility should not be used to discuss the business of the meeting. All comments must be made verbally for the benefit of all participants of the meeting and the audio recording. It is very important that the outcomes of the meeting are clear. We are dependent on the technology for this meeting, so if you are experiencing any issues, for example, you drop out of the meeting and are unable to reconnect, you can seek assistance by e-mailing the Committee and box which will be monitored during this meeting. The meeting will continue as normal if we are expect, if experiencing minor connection issues, providing the meeting remains quorate. However, if we have major issues such as total loss of the conference call or loss of the webcast, the meeting will be adjourned for up to 15 minutes and if the meeting cannot be restarted within 15 minutes it will be adjourned for another date or time.

persons who have registered to speak at the meeting have been admitted to the meeting in advance to avoid technical issues where possible, just before, just before the beginning of each item on which there are speakers, there will be a short pause while I can just ensure all relevant parties are on the call Members must remain muted during this time and should not speak until the meeting resumes.

thank you very much.

and the benefit of the recording we're going to take a roll call, and the clock will call your name and if you're a person, please introduce yourself.

thank you, Councillor Lidstone.

evening at present, Councillor Munday, present Councillor Roberts.

as one Councillor O'Connell.

you're muted Sherborne F, No, I got just a slow present, that's OK, thank you.

Councillor Atkins present.

Councillor Lewis

can I just say I have to go quote 2 7 ago, another meetings go to noted, thank you, Councillor barrington King.

at present and like Councillor Lewis, I've got a parish council meeting, so I'll put it in the chat box, so I'll be leaving at 7.00, thank you noted, Councillor Holton.

County Councillor McInroy.

I can see you, but I can't hear ye.

so I'm going to mark you as here, if I can see you,

thank you, County, Councillor Oakford.

thank you, County Councillor, Brunei.

thank you, County Councillor Hamilton.

thank you and Parish, Councillor McConnachie present, and I too need to leave at about 10 7, thank you, and then officers Julian Cook.

present.

Hilary Smith is for a point of note only, and John Strachan.

present, thank you.

thank you, Chairman, OK, thank you. Members of the Committee should be familiar with the process, but for the benefit of any members of the public who may be watching. I'd like to explain a couple of things. Committee members have had their agendas for over a week and have had the opportunity to ask manufactured questions of the officers ahead of the meeting. When we come to the substantive items on the agenda, they also have registered to speak, will be asking turn to read the statement, they will have a maximum of three minutes each after the speakers. The relevant officer will set out the report. If present, we will then move into narrow discussion at the end of the debate. I will try to summarise the Committee's view and members should ensure that any proposals or actions are correctly captured. This committee, of course, is as the power to make recommendations. It does not make

decisions agenda. Item 1 is to note any apologies for absence from members of the Committee. Do we have any apologies for absence?

party.

no apologies received, can I just clarify please, the person in the meeting with the username from J 0 2, could you please come onto camera, that's John Farmer, I believe, is that when the country with the Bachelet report

the veteran former sorry, no, just double checking your name to making sure the correct person is in and Katie's seed house.

I apparent sorry, it's not Katie's seed house, but apparently she's trying to join the meeting stuck in the waiting room.

yeah, and who is she in relation to this meeting, can we clarify that place when she's she's a resident, and what name does she go by Katie?

OK, so she hasn't actually requested to speak, she will need to watch from the live stream.

that's fun alright, thank you, sorry Chairman, which is not one of our speakers, she now, she's not now or have I got to okay and next agenda item is, do we have any Councillors who are not present?

as far as I can see so far, we have Councillor Holton and Councillor Bruno are not with us at the moment, started the meeting, thank you.

agenda item 2 is to receive any declarations of interest in items on or in items on the agenda, does anyone have any declarations today, please?

no, none are here now. Thank you and agenda. Item 3 is to note any members of the public or visiting members of the Council who have registered to speak. Do we have any such persons? Please, yes, Chairman may Stone Hodgson is registered to speak on item 5 tyro responses, Mr Harry Hopwood and Ms Jennifer Vernell are registered to speak on item 6. Extension of the zone HB permit parking Clifton Road. Thank you very much. Thank you, and item 4 minutes of the meeting dated 3rd of July 2023

we now need to approve the minutes of the meeting held on the 3rd of July in terms of accuracy, are there any amendments in terms of accuracy of those minutes please?

would anyone like to say?

I hear nothing, so can we agree to approve those minutes, then the motion is to agree to the minutes and are there any objections that there doesn't seem to be any right?

a great lovely thank you, I mean I'm sorry, it's fatal to read of respect, isn't it, I'm sorry.

can I generate Item 5 GTB report of the tyro responses and we have a registered speaker, Dawn Hodgson.

one issue here

is Jordan Hodgson here?

she is not in the waiting room and has not appeared so far on our list of people okay, if she does appear, then we can obviously invite her to speak to him in the meantime, can I ask John Strachan Tunbridge Wells Borough Council parking manager to present a report on tiara responses. Thank you, thank you John

Even if the Members, I've got two reports for transportation board this evening.

the first one relates to waiting restrictions in a number of locations and for different reasons that are set out in the report.

the element of the report that

had the greatest interest and attention was some junction protection at 3.00 locations.

two in Pembury, one won him one in Pembury and 2 in rustle.

now the junction protection.

measures were felt necessary to allow service vehicles to enter and exit the the roads in question and the information that justified it came from our contractors who are unable to satisfactorily remove rescue refuse from people's houses.

it also calls into question whether a CFA range could go through those junctions in an emergency or an ambulance indeed and also as implications for pedestrian safety and road safety at those junctions where sight lines are compromised and vehicle drivers can't see pedestrians and pedestrians can't see vehicle drivers so there's a there's a number of reasons why these junction protections are proposed in the form of double yellow lines.

and there were a number of objections based generally on the reduction in parking capacity, although the report does explain that the perception is not what is in actual fact going to happen because the length of the restriction is measured from the centre of the carriageway so in it in effect we're going to lose seven metres in each each projection into the different roads on the junctions so on the basis of accessibility for vehicles and being able to service people's properties and remove their refuse and to allow for the safe passage of vehicles and pedestrians around these junctions.

that is the justification.

just moving on to the other elements of the report Age, UK provides meals on wheels from Woods Street and the premises is, in part, fronted onto Tunbridge Wells Borough Council owned land.

through an access road that leads gives further access to more parking behind the those premises Age UK are struggling with their operations because they cannot guarantee their vehicles the ability to park when they're collecting and delivering, so the intention is to actually control one parking space, there really are two parking spaces and if you go into the appendix A that's detail on the plans just to enable Age UK to operate as best they can, it does not have wider implications for parking on the land in question which was one of the

feedbacks that we got from the consultation were only affecting.

one or two permit spaces in that location, just moving on to the other elements of the report.

in Linda Park Road, there's some yellow lines that aren't covered by a traffic regulation order, that's that's just a housekeeping issue and these anomalies to arise from time to time, so the the intention is to amend the traffic regulation order to reflect the lines in place.

St. James's Road, a commercial premises is struggling to get deliveries, so, and this has been a long-standing issue, so we are proposing to put some double yellow lines in, I think there was one objection which was on the basis of all or a reduction in parking capacity, but the restrictions only from mornings last to afternoon, Monday to Friday, so evenings and weekends it will not affect the park capacity there that we are saying we align

in Brook Road, our contractors are struggling to get access to open space in Oak Road and the yellow line is there to actually allow access.

to allow them to service service the land

it's not the grass whatnot and finally.

there is a development in women Street which requires a vehicle crossover and

it's difficult to deny that crossover because it actually affects the development, but there will be a reduction in parking pass in parking capacity there, but to mitigate against that we we believe we've identified an area close by where we can extend permit parking to mitigate the effective re, reducing the parking to seamless rate,

so the officer recommendation is for JCB to recommend that these

restrictions are put in place in accordance with the

advertised traffic regulation order.

thank you, thank you very much, John is Dawn presence at all.

the ladies wanted to speak now Stoner, within the waiting room on a Friday Chairman.

say I think we just have to move on then and invite members any questions from members please.

I don't see any hands, can you put your arm?

Peter

thank you to them.

yeah,

I sympathise with the residents of of Russell and

principally, I am on the there, as, as mentioned by John, the reason for the objections was with the losing of parking spaces.

and they're not alone in that, sorry, my ward, is well, there are junctions that are very treacherous, because the yeah over on the lack of capacity for for parking.

means that people end up parking on on the junction.

essentially, the root cause, as we all know, is that we have a 40 minute cars on roads that were designed to hold that many cars.

and as we know as well, there are a number of factors that the planes that, but principally it's the, it's the fact that we don't have affordable, reliable and safe alternatives.

and and certainly the current direction of travel from the government doesn't give me much hope that that will change, saying we, there are a couple of agenda items later that the 0 or suddenly the the active travel update mentions a cycle route from Russell to town and I think that's that's positive it would also be good to look at coils as well, I don't believe we have any Como shared cars in in Rostow each one of those on average takes 20 vehicles off of the road, so that's a a potential solution.

but I just wanted to really commend Kent County Council, for actually you know for for.

standing by the principle according to the Highway Code, the vehicle shouldn't be parked within 10 metres of a junction, that is you know, that is good not just for obviously for our refuse vehicles but for the safety of pedestrians rather other road users so commending Kent County Council for that just think it's a bit of a shame that it takes a refuse vehicle being unable to navigate a road for us to enforce this.

and and I understand the frustrations and the challenges, but we aren't going to encourage people on to onto bikes or on foot if if they can't cross the road safely so, and I am glad that we can address the root cause in this situation.

thank you, Peter John, have you got any comment in response?

thank you very much, Councillor, I just that it does highlight this.

advice or

suggestion in the highway code that you shouldn't part within 10 metres of a junction, and that comes up for us quite a lot.

under the under the restrictions that we enforce, we can't physically enforce 10 metres of the junction.

nor should we, as there is no problem in doing him in parking there, I suppose what we need to do is have this the yellow lines to advise people where they can and can't park and or to underpin that.

thank you.

thank you very much, as you know.

thank you essentially, John.

I'd just got a quick question about Windmill straight or the three spaces that you've identified likely to be available at the same time as the loss of the first three spaces.

it's not, I might give to Siberia, Nick Baldwin engineer should've been here presenting this piece on annual leave, but we would work to that we would try not to.

at those spaces, the new spaces implies.

before before we take out the restriction, I suppose it depends a little bit under the speed of the development, thank you, but I got out so I can certainly feed that back to him and say that that's that's a desire yeah as you know, it's pretty tight for parking bays, so the restaurants should be grateful. Thank you, thank you Rodney Councillor Atkins.

yes, thank you, sir, just picking up on the 10 metres from the junction and the same and a bit of a shame, really because there's obviously a lack of an education here, maybe when people pass the driving test and I the prostate several years ago, I don't know when the ball came in about parking 10 metres from a junction, most certainly was aware of it. I don't know how I became aware of it bumps anywhere of it, so this is just really and say that I saw there is for this Bill for those who are just reinforcing, in fact, what shouldn't be happening already, which is parking close to a junction, so you know any loss of parking, really there's no parking there to start with, I know it is a bit of a shame are thinking in this time as we you know, you have to put double yellow lines down to tell people can't do it when, to some extent this bit of common sense, if you can't get a and are thus caught or a foreign engine of emergency services through that, and why do they park there? I guess it's more of a statement province

anything else, thank you,

thank you and any come back on that, Sir John, did you want to say anything else?

I like to think, yeah, I have sympathy with people who have been hard at work or die and they come home when they can't find anywhere close by to park.

and it's tempting to think Well, I'll get up early and I move my car, but you don't quite get round to it and then I mean the other thing is the frustration of people to come out and find a little bit skilful.

and they put out the night before, so you know, I think they pay people, if there was a reasonable alternatives, I wouldn't park illegally or against the highway code, I think it's just a matter of necessity or you know.

dare I say, laziness, but you know you just don't know what's in the mix, but we can guide people in that respect.

yeah

thank you.

Councillor Lewis.

thanks very much I was just thinking that pitches coin, basically but.

the preponderance of more and more cars coming to three for car families in Southborough and is parking lot, sorry, that you never know what street you can park on and you wake up and you don't know which, sir, in common with Strictly Parton I will say Edward Street in Salisbury,

a person have put notices on cars, asking people not parked there the next day because they've had a problem getting down Edward Street because it is so narrow.

and

if you look at the the corners of Western Road and Fort Road, we could do par right on the corner, one is often impossible to see what's coming round the corner who's crossing and certainly are, as you say, refuse vehicles and ambulances.

and it's a bit dodgy around the all the time, and it's not unique, is it so you know this is a problem across the helper, I think and probably don't can.

thank you very much.

yeah, and can I just check if a speaker has since arrived at August?

it would be nice to give her a chance, she's here.

at night Chairman still no sign of the Speaker, I OK, then I think we have to move on, so Members are you happy with the recommendation?

that we note the response concluded, that there is a great deal to that. Thank you very much. Can we move on then to agenda item? 6, extension of zone HB, permit parking Clifton Road, and now we have two registered speakers, are they present please? Both speakers are present Chairman, thank you, sir fine warm welcome to Harry Hopwood and Jennifer finale, so I hope I've said that correctly, so, Harry may, we invite you to address the Committee, please.

for everyone, it's just get my wife's picture of where we go.

OK just to confirm, but is it three minutes max?

that's why yeah, so megastar would need three minutes, so just bear context I lived on Clifton Road for five years now and one thing we've noticed since moving in is that the parking has got increasingly worse hit resonates with a lot of what's been discussed already, it can be a bit of a lottery depending on the time of day that you arrive in trying to park on this road.

and suddenly you know there's not an expectation, I think, from the residents here that you should be able to park right outside your house, but it would certainly be nice to be able to park on your road.

essentially around sort of peak time sort of in the in the morning and evening, and certainly if they go into the evening yeah, it's a high chance that you'd be won't get a parking spot usually having to park across the park in Oak Road, I know for some residents they feel incredibly unsafe walking through there at night and the lighting is really poor, but that's it. That's another issue, but yeah parking is near enough at capacity. It's not helped by the fact that recently there was a

New build approved for Lambert's Yard, such application 2 2 Ford slash 02 5 7 2 Sats for eight dwellings, there will be parking spots with that housing, but you know, if any of that were to spill onto Clifton Road, it would make it much worse and also the access road to that will be at the bottom of Clifton Road and that will see at least another four spots and parking spaces lost for that development. So with regards to the the permit, I'm not saying that the permit will sort of resolve all of the issues, but I think it will go a long way to preventing it from getting any worse. We really can't afford any more parking so flowing here with commuters, but also with new builds coming in

it's just gonna make a whole lot worse for residents who I know already feel unsafe if they have to park elsewhere, there's lots of families around here, and you know it would be appreciated if we'd be able to park near, so I think the hope is that by introducing a permit it would help to reduce any further exacerbation of the parking issues that we're currently experiencing, I'll leave it there, thank you.

thank you very much for your contribution on 9 by the other speaker to the Convener.

have I said it correctly, I think, yes, sorry, I'm just waiting for my video to come through, OK right, I think it's worked.

right.

yeah and I'll just read what I owe what I wrote, if that's all right, can you hear me,

yes, well, I can, I have to pay for one hour scam.

yeah,

yeah hi I, I moved to Clifton Road over 40 years ago and when I first moved in, there were about five cars in the road which I've I've watched this rise year by year to the current situation.

there certainly is a parking problem in Clifton Road, but as far as I can see, there's no solution other than banning cars altogether.

and last Thursday evening I walked up and down the road.

I counted 115 cars parked in the road using all the available space, and there were another 25 or so spaces where people had been allowed to make that front gardens into a parking space, so this makes a total of 140 parking spaces in Clifton Road.

in your letter that you sent round, you counted 238 properties in the Road, I don't know if that includes where a house has been made into flats, but either way there were far more households than spaces by around 100.

my next point is that a lot of residents leave in the mornings in their cars, for work or school, and there's rarely a problem finding somewhere to park during the day the problem is in the evenings when everyone comes home.

some people blame the commuters, but, although I agree that has in the costs, been a problem, is far less of a problem now, partly due to more people working from home, but also because, since you introduced parking permits one side of the road they know they might not find a spot and so don't risk using Clifton Road. Occasionally I see people getting off a train and walking to a parked car, but it's it's nothing like how it used to be. So I feel very strongly that the proposed plan wouldn't help the situation in the road at all and leaving things as they are is the best possible compromise.

I, I often have to go partner car in Oak Road or Brook Road and walk back in the dark at night.

but it is putting a permit to five o'clock won't help that at all, it won't make the slightest difference, so please don't do it.

that's it, thank you very much, thank you.

May I invite Sir John construction, the parking manager to introduce the report, and thank you thank you very much positive for your contributions, thanks thank you Chair, so this was originally raised in April 2023, which HTB.

where we looked at responses to any formal consultation on extending Zone HB, which exist in park soft Clifton, Road Brook, Road and Oak Road, and the direction was to go to a formal consultation, and the report itself doesn't have the final figures for those in those in favour and those against.

extending the the from parking in in Clifton Road, it's important to point out that I think Nick does make a point in his report somewhere that these these schemes aren't intended to.

manage a resident parking against resident parking that are intended to deal with things like a local worker parking and commuter parking, and some of the original information that we were provided with suggested that this was a commuter parking issue, but that really hasn't been born out by the responses to the consultation, for example, and the times that people are reporting that that are experiencing difficulties, they are experiencing difficulties in the evenings and at weekends when all the residents or more residents are gonna be parking there and we don't we're not able to really deal with that through these schemes.

as I say that they are intended to protect resident parking or give some sort of preference to resident parking over other road users, in actual fact, I had the final figures in response to the public consultation if this is the formal consultation and then there were 24 residents against it 12 in favour and one resident was unclear so just on numbers alone we would not support extending the parking scheme into the currently unregulated curbside space in Clifton Road.

thank you, thank you very much, Members, any questions.

right.

Councillor Roberts, I think I missed you off last time.

I'll come back to that, is that correct, you haven't just?

I used to do the last item, but actually it's fine with residents because I do apologise because I just simply missed your name sounded cuddly I didn't scroll down from 9 comma 2, thank you, Councillor Lewis.

thank you Chair, some of them by Wu during the search that the Tunbridge Wells is response to this or the on of residents' parking, and then I would be.

in favour of extending the scheme,

I hear what

Mr Hopwood said, but I think it's a question of them, improving the lights in the area was extended in the area, myself and and if it's unsafe for people.

walking from their car to their house when it's unsafe for pedestrians and other road users as well, and and for cyclists, so I'm happy I I would suggests no extending it myself and.

there needs to be an urgent look lighting in the area if that is such an issue, because that is far more important thing than this thanks very much thank you, George Martin, and add to that to make any further comments, can I am happy with them.

with that thank you, I don't see any more questions from councillors and and to look at the recommendation here.

bearing in mind the foregoing comments, there is no justification for meant in a panic parking restrictions in Saron HB, that there is provision, but that is provisional on any responses submitted in the final two days as a consultation well.

we've addressed that haven't we,

count Councillor, I did give those final figures, which is 24 against 12 and 5 from 1 unclear.

members are therefore recommended not to endorse the making of advertise changes to Clifton Road permit parking restrictions.

is that agreed agreed?

no OK, thank you very much moving on then active travel projects, update report.

this agenda item is for information, but do members have anyone

do members have anything or are sorry, I've just seen Mr Houghwood hire to you and thank you for allowing me to speak this evening and queries, Councillor Lewis.

thank you very much, Mr. Hopwood, and thank you for taking the trouble place if you for to speak to us, OK thanks.

so agenda item 7 active travel projects, anybody got any questions or you want to discuss this.

report.

all very quiet, so can we can we agree that that report is noted?

just for information, OK, they agreed utterly. Thank you. I am agenda item, a bad Sir regimen hatch Chairman, I'd like to ask that's me speaking, yes, I'm sorry, I mean I would like to ask journey and crew KCC MA Highways Manager to present his report on battleground. Please welcome, Julian thank you Chair this report, I think, represented by John Farmer, lovely I thought

notice of his name nationally is a mantra, thank you nice to see you again.

Caribbean charm, gravy members.

this is an information report, I think they, the key items really are that they are relatively simple schemes, but we've had quite a bit of trouble.

with the Battle Road junction, because it's on the line of a natural watercourse is concerned about flooding in the area, and we clearly don't want to add to that we'd obviously like to improve it.

and we've had to do a lot of work in terms of flood modelling and risk assessment.

and that work and those conversations with the Environment Agency are still going on, but the outcome is likely to be that we need to including the scheme some way of actually holding water back a bit and that might be combination of larger pipes but in particularly using the the severed area of land where we move.

the road over a bit to actually provide drainage ponds in that area.

so I say that has been a frustration.

but hopefully we're getting to a conclusion and hopefully we'll get agreement with the Environment Agency.

and therefore we can put a planning application in, hopefully before the end of October.

the other one is the roundabout at Templars Corner.

as it says in the report that was highly constrained, a very small roundabout.

and it really is impractical to actually improve that, as envisaged at the time of the planning applications.

and the only real way really is to consider a larger roundabout that, unfortunately, will require land, and so I think that's the way to go forward on that one and to hold residual section 106 contributions towards the towards the delivery of that.

the other thing,

cherries your whereas the myself and a colleague met the Town Council the other day to share the scheme with them. They're obviously a bit frustrated by the delay, as we are raised issues about making sure that we provide adequately adequately for pedestrians and cyclists and try and limit any tree loss, and if that's unavoidable to avoid trees. But I think that's all I want to say really chair thanks I came here, yes says thank you very much, and thank you for your presentation to the Town Council, which I was, I was obviously present and our Councillor Atkins was sacked from the last item on. Have I done the same to you as I did to Councillor Robertson or Northerner? You haven't

practices such as the research, thank you very much out here, hello junk, premise, I am a parish or town councillor, so you know, I've spoke on this at a private Town Council meeting.

for those, obviously on their love, my views again really on this.

what concerns me mainly about this is it doesn't do anything to really encourage cycling or walking at all, and what I'm really concerned about that's what I'm really concerned about, but I can actually pull off you know some of you of some details from KCC policies yeah you're recent

the emerging Local Transport Plan.

we are turning Khatoon s Net Zero, it actually mentioned there will incentive, and since and synthesize people to choose alternative options to the car by prioritising maintaining the creation of safe and accessible walking and cycling lines, I don't believe this design here does any of that.

the the vision 0 statements which KCC has. This is quite long, but he actually says that the EU gov survey of Kent residents May 2020, as she said, 63% of people would like to see more cycle lanes in their local area and 56% fuelled traffic is too fast. The cycle safety on the road, so they are calling out for cycle lanes that that paragraph as it goes on, about government read in full there, but the there is no cycle lanes at all here, and if you know that if you do know the junction, he said there is Eco, Moscow school in one direction, which is about 400 yards LeasCheann when volume contraction, because Puntland Sports Centre, which has been about 300 yards in one direction, you got the new party which really centre

touriga 500 yards, real attraction, and the brand new Bedford, Road housing development, which is literally on this corner. Now there's a global lot of activity on a lot of walking takes place at this junction today and in fact I think there'd be more activity would be taking place and we should be encouraging cycling, the demands of Moscow's kids which come off or the train station woke up you know,

they could, for instance, they could cycle and everything, and I think it is a cycle path, certainly along if you just take a look certainly from the fire station on the approach to the junction, there is not therefore a psychopath to be there and I don't know why there isn't one the domain, if you look at the map and I know repeat, it look at this, but if you look at the map, the actual part of the road, the old Pelsall Road that is crying out to be a cycle line along there, da that actually

hammerhead Road, if you like, or the closed road, actually becomes a road accessible only to for two properties, so the traffic on that road will be absolutely minuscule to be honest, so it should be a cycling along there and then you could easily have a cycle junction across and the Mainstone road crossing junction there. You'd have to move back approximately probably to where the stop line currently is on the pencil road to allow two cycle crossing onto the psychopath from the other side, so that you know cyclists, they think schoolchildren, I think you'd get on to the other side Birch gets Moscow School, I think I think that's this actually crying out for that. The other thing I'm concerned about here is the the curves in fact, of the of the roads may say curves, such as its nature encourages fast vehicle speeds if a widescreen there's no incentive to slow down at all

and there are some pretty blind corners round here and I think the the curves I understand obsession that's a word you could have HTV. Can we along, but again, if you if you'd move the almost, if you leave the Mainstone Road junction, approximately where it is, there is an easy enough swing round there for next TV and your cycle crossing there, so it needs looking at the pedestrian crossings on a green line. Arriving schoolchildren are going to wait for the lies across there and the phasing of those lights may actually crucial. Because cool kids will just Christmas crossed there on a on a free light, then crossed the cross. They weren't right

we will zebra crossing now at least you know Dr is have to give way and you can save someone's on the crossing, I development there's another supposed losing tree there, there's no tree which is proposed to be gone there so I I know I as I know where is the discussion the, although you said is passed, will you say to checklists and so forth?

it may bobo do, but I think it should be looked at again, he does nothing to encourage active travel, it is all to do with getting no vehicles because wherever through disjunction you know, and almost everybody else you actually also in fact we've got dismembered now you removing a crossing actually from Mainstone Road, there's actually currently a crossing that there's there'll be no crossing there at all, so anybody who walks up with the current old Petsoe bugged there's no way to cross down to the Mainstone Road Christmas-time radar. You'll have to do to

toilets at crossings.

so you know I, I can't say I can't support it, I mean I, I think it is a bad design, I think it's a dangerous design and nothing to actually travel, and I'm sorry, John you've heard it all before I spoke so I shall out there thank you.

OK, thank you very much, Councillor Atkins, I think.

to be fair, this was discussed at that meeting and agreed, and you suggested officers suggested that you were going to have another look, I did you want to come back.

while a little briefly.

a Chair yes, you did, I think partial nativity really is that

what I and my colleagues and as a team are doing or inaction or trying to implement a junction that was agreed to provide mitigation to these three developments and therefore that is our primary objective, and please don't forget that one reason for actually making it a signal controlled crossing was in order to,

assist and help pedestrians, and indeed cyclists, to get round that junction,

but I agree that, because of the the constraints on the area that that route is, if it has to go round the what the south side of it

but, as I said earlier in that at the meeting I mean, yes, the bypass section of road is an obvious route for cyclists to take whether you are designated as such or not, and we will look at that and, as I said, that we are looking within the the land constraints that have been made available by the developer whether we can also,

if you like, widen some of the footways in order to make sure that will make them available for cyclists, but, as I say.

the relatively is that we are delivering something within a fairly constrained area to improve this junction and and not scope if you like to look wider, and maybe that's something that should've been considered back in 18.

but where we can we will definitely try, and

sort of improve things for pedestrians and cyclists. Thank you Chair, thank you very much for an kitchenettes Councillor, thank you Chair I can see and Councillor Radford wanted to come in in response to Ronnie, so I mean I'm happy to say to him if he'd like to just respond to what Councillor Atkin said and then I'll follow on with a separate question if that's all right sorry, Councillor Richard, so seriously.

is a it's happening here, I'm here I don't wish to jump the queue in any way, shape or form, but I just wanted to make the point of the active travel, I think everybody on this committee is aware the KC stage is not have any money.

and active travel will only be funded through government grants, and Tunbridge Wells has submitted.

for various grants. Sometimes it widens, and sometimes it doesn't, it hasn't worked very much, it's gone through a lot of other places in the county because of the fixation that it's had to be. I experienced sex, so although many people by that stay cycle routes in areas unless the money comes directly from central government, the PCC will not be invested in them. We haven't got enough money to resurface, roads need resurfacing, we haven't got enough money to fill the potholes that have been filled. James

the officers that are on the code have to work with constraints laid down by KCC and, although I may wish to do a lot more to support our members, then I did so because they're not given the budget or the freedom to do it, so the officers are doing a great job within the constraints that I have to given to them at this moment so we may talk very low.

very much about active travel, but it has to be funded from central government or is not going to happen, and that's just the facts of the situation we're in at the moment, until government properly funds adult children's social care money is just not available for anything else and sad as it is that's the situation we find ourselves in.

I'm not sure that's really helpful and.

broad needed to work to you are obviously not for as long as not known one another to I, I just want to pick up on something that Peter sediments and I'm sorry, I hear we said Peter, but that KCC, Mr nobody has money, but we're not talking about potholes here, so I don't see any relevance of that statement. This design here this scheme is 3.7 million which is developer funds. So again I don't see how you haven't got the money because there is money here 3.7 and I can't see how putting a bit of pain down across a road isn't, of course, hundreds or thousands, or hundreds of thousands of pounds more keeping traffic lights approximately where they are and if they don't move them again, doesn't cost any money moving them costs money. So I I hear what you say, but I don't think

much of what you said supports anything for the scheme actually or goes against this scheme.

think there has been no need today, for there has been another work done towards a spot na after, if I my the Highways Authority, to ask my decision and I said we would never support putting a line pinned on the route and sign it sign SYP the cycle if it isn't safe to cycle line-up, why I wrote Stop bike site, you have to have segregated cycling for young people if its current speed size and as a psychiatric say it's not at magnitude best if there is a scheme that's being developed.

that the contributions, or what the scheme is developed around the funds, revival and case if Seabrook's criteria. We have to do that, we will continue to do so, but I think we can have conversations outside this meeting. I'm not sure we can do justice to your concerns, I'm sorry, I just come back to what I was referring to, what Les the white lines and everything was more from the crossing across the road, not, as you quite rightly said, which I will support is a white line as a segregation for a cycle lane. So it just to be clear that so, yeah, we I do agree on that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Peter, thank you Chair and yes, I agree with Councillor Atkinson. Section 1 0 6 money is to mitigate the impact of the development on the highways and I think one clear way to mitigate that impact is to invest in

in modal shift and moving people out of cars, although I appreciate there, there are also other considerations and but I think it does go to show just how expensive doing anything on the route is and and and if you were to hand the three and a half million over two and a

to to a scheme towards active travel, I think it would be transformative, but anyway, I'll make that point, I just I also just want to say, on behalf of a sort of paddock with Town Council, I think is a bit unfortunate that you were your meeting was after the consultation period had ended so again just to point that out or I am not that was, I'm gonna be conducive to kind of receiving con feedback on the consultation.

Johnny a question for you, if I'm just looking at them, not I'm a little, there was an agreement with the developers back in 2014 that no overall cost is going to obvious since then I roughly what the leftover amount will be after developer funding has been put towards this junction.

you know and okay, question 1, A, I guess I mean, I would also plead that we do look at it, I noticed the report says, either widening the roundabout or 0.

sustainable travel options or would plead the the residual funding he does does get put towards sustainable travel options rather than just widening a roundabout which will become even more dangerous for, particularly for cyclists, thanks.

we want to come back on that.

Palmer.

I, James Farmer yeah, sorry Chair, couldn't find the mute button.

that, I'm not trying to be evasive, but I I don't know what the residual funding would be because.

we, we really need to resolve the flooding issue with the Environment Agency, so we're actually clear as to what the answer will be and what the scheme will be, but the residual funding does need to go towards developing the Dampier Corner roundabout and, although I've mentioned sustainable travel,

in my report, when you actually look at the the section 1 0 6, that does allow us that was obviously aimed at doing the the defined schemes, but it does allow us to consider.

something alternative that achieves the same, so it really has to be directed at improving the capacity of dampness put on a roundabout.

OK, thank you, and I, as a local member, I'm very aware of the level of work is turning to this and I hear what Les or the concerns are of course we do, and I share some of that myself, but I do want to just acknowledge that what you do, the complexities and the work that's gone into this and Councillor Munday.

thank you, Chair yeah, Sir James Councillor Atkins, also a town councillor I would not be joining his team a couple of weeks ago, so my concern really is about the postponing of any work on the I 2 to 8 roundabout owner.

similarly, comments from all partner Town Council.

to agree neither a lot more area to put a roundabout in its kind of any year, but until we can do that, there was totally trying to tie that in with the Coates Hill bypass, which I think Nasser, that's probably at least 10 years away.

in the houses of which it can be built, the sooner than that, so the way now we've got the a 21 dual carriageway all the way through up to 25 the main congestion I see on it tablet Corner is carrying out Parkwood West into Tunbridge Wells as discussed on a meeting with if we could try and just wide and that section so you can have a dedicated left turn line recurring at Cope's Hill and then the other right-hand lines either strengthen or turn right to go up to the Hop Farm.

so I think most traffic now that wants to go to several actual Tunbridge, personally Aga Optimax from a gap to age 21 that way now, and anything that is going from fibre Green End towards the Hop Farm MUGAs, which that will destroy Fox roundabout, so I think the main congestion is on maps.

Paraguay up to Tunbridge.

so we appreciate it. We can look at that before, though the overall scheme for roundabout this is planned. Natural Chair OK, thank you very much. I'm just going to Skipton and Peter Wright when I think that was history it wasn't, then I was when you spoke before, Rodney you've already spoken. Can I invite Councillor McConnachie, who hasn't spoken, and whose patch Tampere Conroy is in, can I invite you to speak for us questions charts? Thank you very much, Chair, and I didn't want to waste people's time on talking about Pompey's corner, but I do think I need to make a point here, particularly having lived within a mile or Tempest corner for the last 30 years. I actually know about all the traffic flows around there and, quite frankly, the whole idea of mucking around with the roundabout when we already have two lanes coming out going over the roundabout in all four directions, going straight into one lane means that trying to make it into three lines going into one line is just madness. Basically, you're wasting money, you would need to sort out the width of the for roads going on to that junction. I didn't really want to speak about that. What I did want to pick up on was point 8,

for which was talking, and I just want to ensure that any moneys that were reserved, dampness, corner stay reserve, Sudan, peace corner and Dan can't get absorbed into, perhaps helping out Mascalls Corner, thank you, thank you very much, John, for bringing backing for that after those two questions.

yeah indeed.

yes, really, I go back to the point I made earlier.

the tanker's corner is so constrained that there really isn't scope to gain any significant width and certainly not the width that would be required for the dedicated lane, and there was made by the last speaker, you know it will go into one lane anyway, they work if you can run into two lanes but on the substantive point now.

any residual money will be specifically for improving dangerous corner.

sorry, sorry, I just one final point.

I made the link with coach Hill.

and actually that's a bigger scheme with more uncertainty and a longer-term future. I think the point to really make is that in improving that roundabout it needs to stand alone to improve our junction, but it needs to be mindful of a potential coach. So you wouldn't want to do something that would then involve that if you like prejudice or cultural bypass or involve a lot of abortive work, so I think that's the way to present it really also. I'd like to present it as thank you Chair and thank you Ann Rodney

Councillor Atkins,

I have nothing more to add, and I am sorry I know I'll all out, wherever I'd like to say analysis for information, if I could just be recorded, I don't.

I like to support by design there could be monitored, thank you, okay, okay, so we are just noting this and our members happiness actually, is there any other comments or questions?

no, so now again, sadly officers when they work is going on there, I'm sure and conversations will go on outside of this meeting, but thank you very much for bringing it here and we can now move on to Item 9, the highways works programme.

Julian thank you, Chair agenda item 9 is the regular highway works programme report for information.

I am, but I am happy to take any questions and I suggest I work through page by page, so if that's OK, if there are any questions about page 38,

okay, page 39.

Page 40.

Page 41, it might be easier at this point, if I'd say, are there any questions at all about the report?

although there are some.

on the right railway Councillor O'Connor,

all right, thank you, I've got a question about page 45 onwards, such as the developer funded works, it's will work be slotted into this, or is this a full list of all the work that will happen within that time and I'm asking from the perspective of Hawkenbury where we've got developer funds from bakery homes for road resurfacing and repair?

yeah. Thank you for the question yeah, and basically everything listed in Mary's is what our agreements team are currently negotiating on. I'm working with developers so they tend to be the the major developments where it has an impact on the highway normally, where something I wear during highway works, or they're doing highway works within that application, so it could be something on the bellmouth. Smaller developments, probably unless they're impacting the highway and and therefore not being dealt with by our agreements team wouldn't appear on this report. So to answer your question, it would only really cover the largest schemes that KCC and their agreements team are currently working with the developers, on which normally means either. We are doing some work on behalf of the developer and they've given us money to do it, or the developer is during 2 7 8 works on the highway, so it's only where there is normally one mitigation and some impacts on the adjacent highway. Would it appear in this report? So it doesn't cover every development. I'm afraid,

can I just ask, where would I find out about the timing tennis fan race, axing individual roads, in terms of that, that would be in the report further up? I am not under the agree under the developer sections in terms of the specific development. Are you talking about the one that's the new Barkley homespun yes, yeah, you've e-mailed me separately on correct yeah yeah and I'll be respond after this meeting directly to that e-mail if the questions about that yeah, thank you OK, thank you. Thank you very much. Councillor Atkins is thinking

I feel like me, being educated here, so what is meant by a footway?

preservation. What does that involve is I just like surface dressing or Councillor Atkins, you're spot on pretty much, it's the surface dressing for a footway, I'm an example where it's recently happened to be in Upper Grosvenor Road where a section of that's being done down to Silverdale up to the Grosvenor Bridge,

and essentially what it does, is it regulates the footway and takes at all the sort of minor hazards and trip hazards you can only do it like on a surface treatment with arrowhead if the footway has is in reasonable condition to do that, otherwise it's a full reconstruction job if the footway is too badly damaged.

right, OK, so I I think about in reference to page 41, which is from the Paddock Wood, the the Warrington Road, New Road Warner, Close cadmium point with this winter, the various of Brompton Road where the SDLP are currently doing all were there which,

that in part is being taken up the pavement as well there, so I'm guessing, you're just going, we'll go over the top of that to make good, although I have to say that they made very good already try, but if they dug up so that you're going to cover parts the those possibility,

as essentially, as I've done, only a trench rather than full width, the plan would be that we then put the snow that slurry sail over the top of that to say or the footway to stop the motor getting in and also just give it that consistent approach over the mine surface for the pedestrians.

okay, yeah, thank you, thank you for getting that done, Julian I think I'm looking forward to very grateful and Peter passes, thank you Chair Hegelian.

at all of the resurfacing work, Les appears to be backwards, phasing completed, which is great, but nothing feature in the report. I'm I'm missing something now, essentially, what's happened is this year we were very early on surfacing sorry OK, completed early on in the year that's over the plan, major resurfacing schemes for the Champions Wells area for wellbeing, and what we're doing currently is putting the capital bid for next year. The schemes that we want to see done add. It's just what we got in early this year by we were the first team, it's done on a countywide basis by the Hammett team, so what they will do is they'll get economies of scale by giving all the major resurfacing across the county it just so happens that Tunbridge Wells? We were ahead of the guidance, so we got them first

OK.

that's great

no other questions, so I can say, can I just start to check if anyone now has had to leave and OK, thank you very much, sorry, just 19, the highways works programme, moving on to Item 10 topics for future meetings, I'd like to remind board members, as if they'd like, to raise the topic for a future meeting, they should first direct the subject to the appropriate owner in order to obtain the necessary professional advice including costings and resource implications only once this advice has been received should it be submitted in advance for consideration at a future meeting.

I'd also like to remind members that, given the current exceptional times, we're in, we're currently going through other budgetary constraints unlikely to feature heavily on any suggestions going forward and, of course, future outfit was outlined that again for us.

no items have been submitted so far.

is there any, but anybody wants to make any comments or ideas or questions, or we have got an agenda setting meeting, not far away, the January meeting, which I'm sure we'll be discussing one of them that anyone got anywhere away.

if that wasn't another, is that another indication yesterday's Peter?

thank you to just the item that we we've been discussing the petition, yes, yeah sorry Graham public guarantee that there was.

Proto attention and but.

yeah, so I am.

I believe there's been correspondence asking for that to come before the next ITB well unless there's other things that have happened in the meantime, as we discussed earlier and and this was a petition, of course it was submitted to Kent County Council, which is about a tortuous Borough Council project. So we we discussed earlier didn't win the procedures and and how we can do that forward. So yes, thank you for acknowledging that Peter and because I know there are residents is very concerned and I want to acknowledge that and we will do our best to make sure the procedures are followed and and it is addressed

anybody else, and I want to raise anything.

no auction transaction, I see your hand gesture, I just wanted to historic.

the background-check service was a joint project between Cambridge-based Borough Council and Kent County Council.

yes, yeah, but I think that the the, it was mainly that Borough Council that that after

driven it in a sense, so that it was a there's been a, we weren't told about the numbers in the petition early enough to get it on this agenda, that was one issue, but we'll we'll yes, it was Jordan and you are or is it a completely joined 50 50 or is it?

that the County are working to

the borrowers designed so to speak. I think it's true decided there was a joint initiative, but the term, which was initially led on it, the the practicalities of it, are that it's a traffic regulation order as a scheme that's been designed by Kent County Council, so the traffic regulation order sits with them. We simply at the moment act as their agents in carrying out the enforcement that's right yeah. So if any questions about

the scheme. Continuing or in what form it continues would be what those for Kent County Council I would suggest I think he's got at work with, we've been talking about this outside the meeting that I think I think it's got to go through and outreach, we will be discussing this earlier, we have been looking at how it's going to go forward, because we acknowledge that there's there's been all sorts of unclear and we do need to acknowledge the fact that people have chosen to to sign a petition and we need to resolve that, and we'll do that as soon as possible. OK

is that all the facts, so thank you very much, everybody that I've indicated or.

a Tory advocate to surrender then, or

I think that's a bit disingenuous, because the scheme is the Tonbridge Well scheme and or have got an invited kit scheme could be stopped tomorrow, as the current leadership at Tunbridge Wells wanted to stop scheme and stopped fining people.

Kent County Council have no authority to to do that.

there has no notice being given to chocolate well so that we are going to take that scheme.

Simon Giants, the corporate director, Toby that we haven't yet given any notice said, so this game is a topic well scheme and it cannot be deflected wide if they want to stop the scheme next, stop it tomorrow and all I've got to stand in aid Malawi and translate doing.

OK, thank you very much for clarifying that Peter, thank you.

I don't see anybody else, OK, I think that that brings the meeting to an end, and thank you very much, everybody for your contributions and for being here tonight, and the Doge's next meeting is on Monday, the 15th of January at 6.00, and I now declare the meeting closed thank you for here, thank you, thank you thank you.

OK.