Communities and Economic Development Cabinet Advisory Board - Thursday 12 October 2023, 6:30pm - Feedback Tab - Tunbridge Wells Borough Council Webcasting
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Slide 1
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1 Chair's Introduction
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2 Apologies for Absence
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3 Declarations of Interests
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4 Notification of Persons Wishing to Speak
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5 Minutes of the meeting dated 6 September 2023
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6 Forward Plan as at 27 September 2023
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7 Review of Empty Homes Policy 2023-2028
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8 Urgent Business
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9 Date of the Next Meeting
Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.
good evening, welcome to this meeting of the Cabinet of the communities and economic development Cabinet Advisory Board on Thursday, the 12th of October 2023 and Councillor Vaughan, Chair of this Committee, before we start, please give your full attention to the following announcements by the Mayor, R Clark, Mrs. Moran, thank you, Chair and good evening everybody. In the event of the fire alarm ringing continuously, you must immediately evacuate the building at walking pace officers will escort to rue de via the most direct available route, and no one is to use the lift. We will make our way to the fire assembly point by the entrance to the Town Hall Yard, car park and months away, and once outside a check would be made to ensure everyone has safely left and none is to re-enter the building until advised that it is safe to do so.
this is a public meeting and proceedings are being webcast live online recording will also be available for playback on the Council's website shortly afterwards, can I remind everyone to use the microphones when speaking the red light indicates the microphone is on and any comments that are not recorded for the webcast will not be included in the minutes of the meeting.
you should all be aware that any third party is able to record from council meetings unless exempt or confidential information is being considered, the Council will not accept liability for any third party recordings.
it is very important that the outcomes of the meeting are clear at the end of each substantive item, the Chair will ask whether the matter is agreed in the absence of a clear majority, or if the Chair decides a full vote is desirable, a vote will be taken by a show of hands, Members should raise their hands to indicate their vote and keep their hands up until the count has been announced.
members requesting a recorded vote must do so before the vote is taken, thank you Chair.
1 Chair's Introduction
for the benefit of the recording, we are going to take a roll call.
thank you, Chair, expected Members here this evening, Councillor fair weather, present Councillor Hill present Councillor Lewis, present Councillor March, present Councillor Morton.
present Councillor Palmer, present Councillor Webster, present Councillor Wilkinson, present Councillor Rutland.
Councillor Warren, present and expected officers here this evening Sue Oliver present, thank you, and we for the benefit of the recording we have Councillor LB Cabinet Member for Housing and Planning with us this evening, thank you Chair.
thank you.
members of the Committee should be familiar with the process, but for the benefit of any members of the public who may be watching, I would like to explain a couple of things committee members have had their agenda packs ahead of the meeting and I've had the opportunity to ask any factual questions of the officers ahead of the meeting when we come to the substantive items on the agenda this evening the relevant officer will set out their report.
we will then move into members' questions and discussion at the end of the debate, I will try to summarise the Committee's view, and members should ensure that any proposals or actions are correctly captured.
and will remain reminded members that without prejudice to any other comments that may be raised, the Committee is asked to come to one of the following positions, one that they reckon that the recommendations to Cabinet are supported by the board.
2, that the recommendations to Cabinet would be supported, subject to a particular issue being addressed, or three, that the recommendations to Cabinet are not supported, and if this is the case reasons should be stated.
2 Apologies for Absence
Mrs. Moran, do we have any apologies for absence yesterday we've had apologies from Councillor Munday this evening?
3 Declarations of Interests
members of the Committee should state at this point if they have any declarations of interests related to any item on the on this evening's agenda, does any member have a declaration to make?
4 Notification of Persons Wishing to Speak
5 Minutes of the meeting dated 6 September 2023
I see now so we move on to agenda item 4, notifications of persons wishing to speak at this time, we note whether any members of the public or visiting members of the Council have registered to speak this evening, do we have any such persons, we have no registered speakers this evening Chair.
thank you agenda item 5 minutes of the meeting dated Wednesday, the 6th of September 2023 Members are asked to confirm that the minutes of the previous meeting are a true record of the proceedings, please, may I remind members that the only matter for discussion is their accuracy.
do Members have any comments?
I see none.
thank you, the motion is to agree the minutes are we agreed, agreed?
6 Forward Plan as at 27 September 2023
the motion was carried, thank you, we move to agenda item 6, the Forward Plan as at the 27th of September 2023.
forward Plan is on pages 12 to 32 of your agenda for your information, do members have any comments at this time?
7 Review of Empty Homes Policy 2023-2028
I see None, the motion is to note the Forward Plan or we agreed agreed motion is carried.
agenda item 7 is review of the empty homes policy 2023 to 2028 the report starts on page 33 of our agenda, Councillor Pound will introduce the report.
thank you Chair, so this evening we are considering the empty homes policy 2023 2028 it's an update of an existing policy slightly modified to represent the administration's desire to address empty homes across the borough through more proactive management of data engagement and intervention, as you can see at appendix 1 of your papers.
I ask that you consider supporting the two recommendations that are within your papers, including any issues that you may wish to have addressed by cabinet before it is considered on the 26th of October, I'll hand over now to Sue Oliver the private sector housing manager, to explain that policy and to answer any questions, thank you.
OK, thank you, so, as Councillor Brown said, we have an empty homes policy at the moment and expand a five-year period from 2018 to 2023, so when we'd now reviewed it look to our achievements and am looking at the future direction for the next five years.
worth having a look, first of all, of of the at the depth of definition of an empty home, and that's usually that's gonna be a home that's empty for more than six months, that's gonna be a long term empty home.
we obtain data from council tax that's our source of data on empty homes and obviously their data relies on owners of properties telling them the status of the property they send a letter out, but it went out a couple of months ago to all empty property owners asking for an update on the status so that's something that's done annually numbers are gonna always vary from month to month as some empties become sold or occupied and others obviously move into the empty status.
so about half of the empty homes in the borough are empty for less than six months, and that would be transactional reasons so that could be changed in occupier owner or delays in sale.
within the report, I've included the government statistics, they publish the statistics every year in October, I don't have the October 2023, I've gone back to October 2022 and they recorded 462 properties, but what I've done to try and get a more accurate picture is looked at what our council tax figures say for July 2023 which was round about the time I was finalising the policy and the report.
that showed 571 empty properties of those 5 6 9 empty for more than six months.
207 of those are what's called exempt because either they're prohibited from being occupied by law, which means there's a particular reason why somebody can't occupy them or more frequently, it will be where the owner, recent hospital or perhaps in a care home, and there's that transient situation where families are unclear, if the person will be returning home or not, or what they're gonna do with the property, are they're gonna, sell it, what's the the situation or it can be where probate is awaited and Probert's taking on. I understand that Probert's taken quite a while at the moment to come through, so that is gonna mean a property where one of us died, it's gonna take a little wealth to come through for the sale that leaves us with 362 properties. So, as I've said, some of those might have been inherited fairly recently or might even indeed, be already on the market
so houses remain unoccupied for very many reasons and that can be linked to much broader issues like housing demand and wider national influences, like the state of the economy and the availability of finance to do something with the property.
specific reasons can be changes in the owner's personal circumstances, and care needs problems with achieving sale.
and that might be due to sometimes limited or negative equity and adverse lending policies, people have perceived problems with letting and then, if you're letting your managing a property might be that people who are responsible for empty homes don't have experience in those areas.
refurbishment might be required and and or a lack of finance to carry out essential repairs.
the owner might be unaware of the available options and ownership might be unclear or there may have been a change of ownership, so there's lots and lots of reasons why property could be empty.
in terms of complaints, we don't get many complaints as a team, most of the empty properties that we have in this borough are not eyesore empty properties in other areas, you can find why you know vast numbers where there are many, many more empty properties, properties these nice empty properties really look, you can see that that they've almost been abandoned.
often the complaints we received were when we look into them, it's properties that are in fact occupied and the person that's living there chooses to.
live in such a way that the property appears empty, we will always investigate complaints and will always provide advice to the owner on any available options.
so the approach that we have taken and that will continue to take is a reactive approach, will respond to complaints, it's not unlawful to own an empty home.
though there's nothing in statute that prevents you from doing that and we can't serve notice to require it's brought back into use, one of the big deterrence is the increase in council tax, which I think I set out either in the report of the policy I've got remember.
but that I think is a good incentive for years ago, it used to be that if you had an empty home you had a council tax reduction and now actually pay more, so I think that can be a good incentive and that's done in line with government legislation, so that's how those those figures are achieved.
one of the key things that we can send people to for financial support is no use empty, and that's a Kent wide organisation, and they will give very tailored advice to owners, and that's about bringing properties back into use, creating new-build homes from derelict sites and all who help people,
some people want to find an empty property because they want to look at the opportunity of redeveloping it, but they'll also help people don't have to do to builder property, tax and VAT and they offer repayable loans, so that's available to assist an owner to bring the property back into use and there are conditions on those loans in terms of repayments. So the plan is this money is continually recycled, so it said, I think it's three years, so over the past five years we've had 11 loans in Tunbridge Wells borough and that's brought 31 units back of accommodation back into use and then
with any other units where we've had direct involvement. That brings that to a total of 72 units where we've had some involvement in changing the status of the property. So in terms of the review of the current policy, we've looked at what we have done and looked at what more we could do within the existing resources of the team and, as Councillor Pound said, we will look at how we can use data. The annual letter that goes out the council tax letter. We have a very small line in that, for example, that says, if you want empty homes, advice, please contact private sector housing. There might be ways of making that bigger, but that's obviously going to be discussed with council tax, because the main aim of the letter is to for them to establish the status, but there are things we can do. Will we keep the information on the website up to date on empty homes, and I haven't seen, as has the borough magazine, gone out, not yet I have asked for a paragraph to go in that that was something that was raised it
Housing Advisory Panel, and so when that comes out there were at the local magazine, isn't it, there will be a paragraph just to promote, you know the set that the options that might be available, in particular the loans, so we'll continue to look at communications targeted publicity,
in terms of reviewing the policy, then we we look to powers incentives we have, I did some research into what other councils are doing across Kent most councils in a very similar situation to us, it's only one council, that's got an empty homes officer,
dedicated empty homes, Officer and that's Canterbury, they have a very large number of empty homes, so it's a very different scenario.
drafted an action plan for the life of the policy, but the plan will be to review that every six months at the Housing Advisory Panel, so the action plans are not set in stone, it can be responsive fossil RHI
it can be responsive and if if there's a new power that comes into being or if something changes, it can be considered as part of the action plan, so as I said, we will need to continue with the current reactive approach, something I've mentioned in the report is two significant pieces of legislation coming the way of private sector housing one is the renters' reform bill.
and the other is supported, Housing Act supported Housing Act, in particular is going to bring with it the requirement to license supported units of accommodation.
I know of 40 and there could be more, and that will be very similar to house in multiple occupation licensing, and there will also be some need to look at the way the occupants are supported, which is generally outside of private sector housing remit so we are awaiting guidance on that.
there is talk of new burdens funding, but again we don't know what that will be, but that is a significant piece of work, that's coming our way, and these are statutory responsibilities, which means we must we can't just say to the bank practice that these are things that we must do alongside our existing work, the investigation of disrepair and delivery of the mandatory disabled facility grants to name but two other areas.
and that was what I wanted to say, I am more than happy to answer any questions, thank you, Sue members, do you have any questions at this time?
Councillor March.
thank you, Chair, thank you Sue for that.
summary, and also for the going into detail on some of the parts of it.
on the financial assistance.
when you have mentioned about loans in in the appendix.
it says to bring them back.
to renovate or conversion for long term empty properties for use as affordable housing, and that is the loans are conditional upon affordable housing.
I just wondered if you felt one had that ever put anybody off, if they felt they could get more for market housing and to if it were market housing.
it would bring the finances, the the repayments cycle or rather more quickly, and therefore you could in fact have more that money could be used.
or again more quickly, because the market housing would still be actually giving somebody a home but not obviously affordable, thank you.
that's a good question, so the loans I've talked about are part of the Kent note, no use empty scheme, and that's funded outside of Tunbridge Wells Borough Council and those are the loans that people are interested in, we were or were required to produce what's called a housing assistance policy as council and that sets out our allocation of funding from the better Care Fund that's predominantly mandatory disabled facilities grants, but also within that we set out other funding that we have within the council and within that we as a Council will offer empty homes, loans and you've quite rightly picked up Councillor March that
there is a condition, therefore.
affordable housing, and that's not pot that's not that's not always popular option for people to be fit for developers or owners to be going down, we, with our loan we ask for.
we want, we want to be able to place tenants so we want nomination rights, and that's what makes sorry, I've gotten a bit confused here, that's what makes our loans unpopular because we say we want nomination rights if we're going to lend you money and people aren't interested in that if they want to loan they tend to go to the no use empty route. Does that answer sorry, I'm not
sorry.
yes, I think so, so it has put some people off in some ways, but actually, with the the Kent loans, those in fact are still going to affordable housing, there is that right.
I don't know if they're going to affordable housing and I suspect that they're not we get the figures quarterly, so we get to know what loans have been issued in our area, I can look into that and let the committee know after Woods, if that's OK I'll have I'll find out sorry I don't have the information today.
OK thanks, Councillor Mark, I put a question or ask Councillor Webster.
I was just going to ask, is there a programme or scheme to help those people who do own houses or they've gotten, been left Monaurail, or something like that to to rent them out, I mean, could could there be a scheme where the Council would maybe supply them with a tenant and have for six months letting and to give them some money and therefore negate the whole council tax problem.
again, another good question I mean, to my knowledge, we're not looking at any schemes like that at the moment, but I'm heroes private sector housing manager, and I'm not working so much on the tenancy and incentives side of things that again it could well be that there is something like that being looked at, but you'd need we would. We would need to be approaching the owners of empty homes directly and finding out from them, and that's the that's the bit of work that bit of proactive work, that's time consuming that that's where you know if you wanted to do that kind of thing, that's where resource would be needed. Dedicated resource
OK, thank you.
Councillor Powell,
just on that point of view, it is a good question, as I have made a note and I'll go back and talk to Stuart Clifton, who is the Housing Services Manager, about whether we might have some way of sharing information about empty properties and, as you say, the Council proactively approaching them to offer rent or attendance for rent for a period whilst they work through what's going on I think that's a good idea and will I'll take it back, thank you.
I'd ask the question, I've been approached by somebody who spotted some houses near them that are empty and have been so, for they think 10 years is there a process by is it putting a formal complaint into the Council by which they would notify us on that is that is that how the process starts and and if so,
is there any way to feedback what is being done about HBOS?
should those ever then enter the says the system, thank you.
so if somebody wants to make a complaint to private sector housing, our e-mail addresses on the website or I can send it to you afterwards.
and then you can pass that on and then we can have a look and find out what we know about the property already easy, empty, what's the situation with it and at least investigated as a complaint, OK, lovely, thank you.
any other questions.
I say now the Members wish to debate at all.
I say lots of nodding, shaking Councillor, let Councillor Raymond.
thank you, sir, for your report, I just wanted to say something.
about 3.2 point 9 1, where we've got paragraph about complaints, but it's actually under benefits and will, as I was reading it, I thought Owen bit confused now and I'm wondering whether we could do you think.
this isn't really a question exactly, but more for the floor, should we sort of have a new heading of complaints here and perhaps give the context, sorry, could you just repeat which page that it is on page 30 6, the top of page 36 at the bottom of page 35 we have benefits and we talk about benefits and then we go to 2.9 1.
Over the past five years, very few complaints have been received, and I think, as I was reading it, I thought that it wasn't what I was expecting disease, that we could have a new heading, we'd be complaints and then perhaps a very few complaints regarding empty homes had been made. Often it becomes apparent that perhaps it might be clearer, I might have been the only person who,
was a little bit thrown.
I think I can certainly add that, as a recommendation.
but if wanted nothing, so yes, national law, and that as a recommendation I can sort that out quite easily and will spoke to DSS, thank you for that.
nonetheless, thank you says, Dr Stan, for recommendation.
it's the it's amendment. Bobby officer, yeah yeah, there does need to change. The doesn't need to change the motion. OK, Beverley, thank you, Ms Smith, Councillor Fairweather yeah, I'd just like to say thank you Sue and obviously, as some of us he are aware in some may not be aware that I was quite people on this committee sit sit on the Housing Advisory Panel and we obviously considered this report a couple of weeks ago, so it's maybe not the fact that we're not asking lots of questions, because some of us have already asked questions and put some suggestions in. So just to clarify that point, that yes, as was previously mentioned, it has been reviewed by the HAP and will continue to be so, so thank you
excellent, thank you for that, Councillor Fairweather.
right now nobody's got any further
further comments or suggestions to make how thank you again Sue for the report and moved to the REC recommendations which are set out.
on page 33 of the agenda pack, the Committee recommendations, as supported by the portfolio holder, that 1 that the Cabinet adopts the empty homes policy 2023 to 2028 at Appendix A of the report, the policy and recommendation to that following any review of the policy power to amend it and the action plan is delegated to the Head of Housing, Health and Environment in consultation with the Cabinet Member for Housing and Planning.
with the additional amendment of the addition of a complaints heading at the top of page 36 and introductory phrase.
in that at the beginning of that part of that section of the report.
8 Urgent Business
members are now asked to confirm one that the recommendations to Cabinet are supported by the Board, or we agreed agreed, thank you, the motion is carried.
9 Date of the Next Meeting
I can now move to agenda item 8 urgent business, and I can confirm that there is no such business this evening agenda item 9 is the date of the next meeting, the next meeting is scheduled to take place on Wednesday, the 15th of November 2023.
Webcast Finished - 0:26:30
the meeting is now closed, thank you for your attendance, thank you Chair.- 1 Chairs Introduction, opens in new tab
- 1 Apologies for Absence, opens in new tab
- 2 Declarations of Interest, opens in new tab
- 3 Notification of Persons Wishing to Speak, opens in new tab
- Minutes , 06/09/2023 Communities and Economic Development Cabinet Advisory Board, opens in new tab
- 2023-09-27 Forward Plan as at 27 September 2023, opens in new tab
- Draft Cabinet report Empty Homes Policy 2023-2028, opens in new tab
- Appendix A, opens in new tab
- 8 Urgent Business, opens in new tab
- 9Date of the Next Meeting, opens in new tab